Curse

freekedoutfish · Nov 29, 2006, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Before I start, I know of one issues with this idea;

Overpowerment of rangers, allowing the ranger to subsiquently use two builds;

A beast master on his pet and any other they choose on themselves.

However;

If you havent already figured it out, im suggesting we give a pet the same interface as heroes, and allow ourselves to set them personal skills + points.

I already mentioned one issue I can think of above.

But I do see a counter arguement against this;

Pets are not limited to just rangers. Any profession can own one via their secondary. So to say that this would over-power a ranger, and give them an unfair advantage over any other profession is incorrect.

We could all own a pet and set it skills.

Secondly I can see advantages;

Evolving a pet and more detailed customising on attributes.

At the moment, for most, evolving a pet is a hit-and-miss affair. We all want to aim for a particular type, but often fail.

This may result in us going to get a new pet and trying again, or just swallowing our pride and making do.

(Obviously this isnt true if you have experience in evolving pets, but alot dont.)

I dont completely understand it myself, and I apologise if I write nonsense here.

But Im assuming that if we had access to a pets attribute points, in a similar fashion to heroes, then we could more accurately determine what evolution the pet will have.

Obviously a pet doesnt have attribute points at this time, except for those in beast mastery which the ranger sets.

But I would assume they could create some. Such as strength, speed, aggression, etc etc.

This would also obviously remove the need for the ranger to store most of the beast mastery skills, except those for ressurection (I also believe normal res spells should work on animals - removing the need for comfort animal) and symbiotic abilities.

The rest would be transfered to the pets skill list.

This would then allow a more detailed set up of a pets behaviour and abilities.

Leaving space in the skill bar.

Unlike myself, some may not mind having secondary beast mastery skills taking up space in their skill bar.

But if I choose to use secondary ranger. I would personally rather not use up space for beast mastery skills. I would rather they were taken up by ranger dmg dealing or interupting or spirit casting spells/skills.

By transfering most of the beast mastery skills to the pet, we remove the need to carry them in the skill bar, leaving space for other spells (mainly a benefit to secondary professions), which leads onto....

Removing the need to carry charm animal

This may be a benefit or not. Im not sure.

But it may remove the need to carry charm animal. Your pet would automatically be with you as a ranger or when using the ranger secondary.

Or you can choose to take it as part of your hero party, taking up one of the 3 spaces, or adding a 4th hero pet space.

Allow us to res animals using normal res spells and signets.

If the pet then works more as a party member in the sense of a hero, we should be able to use res spells or signets on them as you would any other.

And also heal them as you would normally.

But still leave the choice to use the normal pet ressing and healilng spells though, as that ability can res a pet from a distance.

Ability for ranger to focus on alternative builds.

With the beast mastery abilities mostly removed from the rangers use, it can leave open space for them to focus on other builds.

I appreciate some like the beast master build and might miss it. But there would still be spells remaining as I mentioned, such as the symbiotic ones which effect you both.

But you can then focus on dmg, or inturpting or spirit spamming or others.

NOTE:

I know that wasnt the best reasoning in the world, and I apologise if Ive annoyed any rangers with my lack of experience and knowledge (at rangering).

And dont be thinking I dislike pets and want to nerf the beast masters. I dont. I like pets, I like their use.

I just feel they could do with making more customisable.

Obviously rangers would benefit from this, so I cant see any argument against this idea coming from them? Unless im wrong, if so tell me the disadvantages?

Plus im not sure how this would effect hero's pets. I realise they do have them. Perhaps have another section for those, or leave them as they are.

Faowri · Nov 29, 2006, 01:28 PM // 13:28

I don't think a full Hero interface would really work well; a pet is a pet, an ally rather than a fullblown hench or Hero. For that same reason, I don't really think changing the mechanics of ressing them, giving them their own skills etc. would really be very fair. It would effectively allow you, regardless of profession, to run a beastmastery build without having very many beastmastery skills in your own character's bar to implement it, in which case you might have two full strength and quite different builds on one single character. Since beastmastery is an attribute, this is a severe and unfair advantage over anyone without a ranger primary or secondary or anyone who simply does not choose to use beastmastery, since no other professions allow you to handle one attribute line without investing any points/sacrificing skill slots to include its relevant skills. If I run a domination mesmer with inspiration and fast-casting, I shouldn't be able to run a full-powered illusion build at the same time. Part of the whole game mechanics and skill level is making decisions about which attributes and skills to use and which to sacrifice and leave out for a given build.

At the moment, for a character to have a solid beastmastery build, they need to invest points and sacrifice space for beastmastery skills, which is the way any focus on any attribute line in any profession works. I don't really see a need to change that.

A reduced interface might be useful though, perhaps just showing health and conditions, DP, and perhaps a target lock to more easily allow you to control your pet.

freekedoutfish · Nov 29, 2006, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faowri

I don't think a full Hero interface would really work well; a pet is a pet, an ally rather than a fullblown hench or Hero. For that same reason, I don't really think changing the mechanics of ressing them, giving them their own skills etc. would really be very fair. It would effectively allow you, regardless of profession, to run a beastmastery build without having very many beastmastery skills in your own character's bar to implement it, in which case you might have two full strength and quite different builds on one single character. Since beastmastery is an attribute, this is a severe and unfair advantage over anyone without a ranger primary or secondary or anyone who simply does not choose to use beastmastery, since no other professions allow you to handle one attribute line without investing any points/sacrificing skill slots to include its relevant skills. If I run a domination mesmer with inspiration and fast-casting, I shouldn't be able to run a full-powered illusion build at the same time. Part of the whole game mechanics and skill level is making decisions about which attributes and skills to use and which to sacrifice and leave out for a given build.

At the moment, for a character to have a solid beastmastery build, they need to invest points and sacrifice space for beastmastery skills, which is the way any focus on any attribute line in any profession works. I don't really see a need to change that.

A reduced interface might be useful though, perhaps just showing health and conditions, DP, and perhaps a target lock to more easily allow you to control your pet.

I see your point.

I would still say we would need the ability to adjust them more closely, such as aggression and deffensiveness, using the points system.

Give us more control over their evolution.

Emik · Nov 29, 2006, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Pets are good as they are.
Never had a pet evolve towards hearty if i didn't want it to.
An XP bar would be handy though.

Pets need to stay as they are.
First. They do what the master tells them to do.
Second. Removing Charm animal won't work. How would you control if the pet is in an allied companion or not? And making them use a party member slot is well... i think you can figure out yourself how idiotic that is.

Eclair · Nov 29, 2006, 02:41 PM // 14:41

I think evolution control is fine as it is, maybe make it a bit clearer on what you need to do to achieve dire. Give it henchmen/hero AI and allow us to flag it would be good though.

Antheus · Nov 29, 2006, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Yes, please. I'll make my pet into third SF spammer.

As far as evolution goes, wasn't it figured out and even proven? I know I used a guide quite some time ago, and it worked without a problem. Direct damage vs. degen or something determines dire vs. hearty.

But as far as pets go:
- b/p teams
- iway

Pets are already in a very fragile balance. Adding even a bit to them will make everyone play only a ranger. And this starts with 2 slots for a pet.

This idea would effectively allow you to make a 16 hero teams, since owners no longer need any BM skills, their pets become completely independant.

Chris616263 · Nov 29, 2006, 03:50 PM // 15:50

How about the ability to set your pet to dire/elder/hearty? That way you don't have to spend another 1,000 gold to hope a certain spider is given to you in UW.

freekedoutfish · Nov 29, 2006, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Yes, please. I'll make my pet into third SF spammer.

As far as evolution goes, wasn't it figured out and even proven? I know I used a guide quite some time ago, and it worked without a problem. Direct damage vs. degen or something determines dire vs. hearty.

But as far as pets go:
- b/p teams
- iway

Pets are already in a very fragile balance. Adding even a bit to them will make everyone play only a ranger. And this starts with 2 slots for a pet.

This idea would effectively allow you to make a 16 hero teams, since owners no longer need any BM skills, their pets become completely independant.

I get your point, but;

I cant really see any difference with having 8 players all with a pet, compared to 8 players all bringing a pet with more funcationality.

It wouldnt be anymore powerfull then a regular pet would be because its still feeding off the same set of skills it would anyway.

The only advantage is that the pet is using the skills instead of the player and it frees up about 2 or 3 slots in their skill barl bar which might have otherwise been used for comfort animal or some other beast skill.

I agree that having them under the normal player list was a bad idea, so you dont exceed the 8 player max.

Keep them listed where they were anyway, but give them a number like we do Heroes to look at their interface.

freekedoutfish · Nov 29, 2006, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Yes, please. I'll make my pet into third SF spammer.

As far as evolution goes, wasn't it figured out and even proven? I know I used a guide quite some time ago, and it worked without a problem. Direct damage vs. degen or something determines dire vs. hearty.

But as far as pets go:
- b/p teams
- iway

Pets are already in a very fragile balance. Adding even a bit to them will make everyone play only a ranger. And this starts with 2 slots for a pet.

This idea would effectively allow you to make a 16 hero teams, since owners no longer need any BM skills, their pets become completely independant.

I get your point, but;

I cant really see any difference with having 8 players all with a pet, compared to 8 players all bringing a pet with more funcationality.

It wouldnt be anymore powerfull then a regular pet would be because its still feeding off the same set of skills it would anyway.

The only advantage is that the pet is using the skills instead of the player and it frees up about 2 or 3 slots in their skill bar which might have otherwise been used for comfort animal or some other beast skill.

Also pets would be limited to the number of skills which your char has bought or captured anyway. So if its a secondary ranger, and the player has only 2 beast mastery skills, then the pet can only use 2.

Its not as if their given or possess all the skills from the word-go.

But perhaps limit the pet to using only 4 skills, to cut down on over-powerment and to mimic players who use ranger secondary and mayb only use 4 pet skills and save the rest for primary.

I agree that having them under the normal player list was a bad idea, so you dont exceed the 8 player max.

Keep them listed where they were anyway, but give them a number like we do Heroes to look at their interface.

Dougal Kronik · Nov 29, 2006, 09:27 PM // 21:27

With my Beast Mastery build, I have 7 Beast Mastery skills.

The reduced pet skill bar wouldn't free up my skills slots and if the pet had 5 slots, so that I still had to equip Charm and Comfort, that would really over power my BM Ranger.

Effectively, you would be adding a slimmed down Hero for each Ranger primary or secondary in the party. It would really upset the balance and make PvE easier than it already is currently.

Series · Nov 29, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Having better control of pet's evolution: Good

Everything else you said: Bad

Epinephrine · Nov 29, 2006, 09:45 PM // 21:45

I'm against pretty much everything excepting adding a pet control. As said before, aggression and flag would be plenty.

Their own skillbar is silly.
Pets evolving differently isn't needed.

Suggesting that a pet not take up space on the bar is just giving free damage to people with pets.

Alotia Slipfeet · Nov 29, 2006, 09:49 PM // 21:49

For pet evolution how bout a system that you have so many points to spend between amour and damage so that you can have your dire when you feel like going beastmaster and hearty when your needing a tank? Also PLEASE PLEASE intoduce some sort of pet control, I really really get irrated durring AB when my pet decides to go after the paragon for half the map -_-

Series · Nov 29, 2006, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alotia Slipfeet

For pet evolution how bout a system that you have so many points to spend between amour and damage so that you can have your dire when you feel like going beastmaster and hearty when your needing a tank? Also PLEASE PLEASE intoduce some sort of pet control, I really really get irrated durring AB when my pet decides to go after the paragon for half the map -_-

Health and damage, actually. But that's a good idea.

darkdawn · Nov 29, 2006, 10:03 PM // 22:03

beign able to see your pet exp bar and to flag him, yes. letting your pet have is own skills, no. But i would like enchentment to work on him too.

llsektorll · Nov 30, 2006, 01:07 AM // 01:07

so basically you just want a hero that will need a skill to be added and another skill to rez them....

GG no ty...

the only thing i would say is to be allowed to have a pet that you can flag... annoying part of haveing a pet is to get him to attack you need to arrow soemthing frong a distance.

MithranArkanere · Nov 30, 2006, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Pets are part of the Ranger class.

Yes, everyone can have one, but it's part of that class.

A pet is a tool, a weapon. Something rangers can have and use.

Being able to se pet exp, evolution, stats... that's ok.

Turning it inot another Hero Party member... that's not possible.